People are not islands; they are social beings. This is an important point to make in relation to suicide prevention – a conversation that is becoming critical these days. Learn how to build resilience in your mind with your host, Tony Martignetti and his guest, Clint Adams. Clint is the Director of The Blue Flames Projects, which is focused on resilience and leadership programs around suicide prevention and domestic violence. He is also the author of the book, Lighting The Blue Flame. Join in the conversation today to learn how being a former police officer can open you up to the depressing part of the world. Learn how to fight back with resilience and proper mental health. Stay in the right headspace today.

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Preventing Suicide And Coping With Trauma With Clint Adams

It is my honor to introduce you to my guest, Clint Adams. Clint is a former police officer and counselor. Now he's a published author with his new book, Lighting the Blue Flame, which is all about suicide prevention and resilience. He is the Director of Blue Flame Projects, which is focused on resilience and leadership programs around suicide prevention and domestic violence. He is coming to you out of Brisbane, Australia. He has two grown-up kids and a 17-year-old Stephie that is sitting right behind him at this point. I want to welcome you to the show, Clint.

Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate your time.

I'm thrilled to dig into your story and understand all of the things that got you to where you are and to see what you're doing with people that is so powerful. I know this story is going to be impactful for people who are reading. For the people reading and for yourself, what we do here on the show is we talk about what's called a flashpoint. Flashpoints are moments in your life that ignited your gift to the world. I'm going to give you the space to share what you're called to share and we'll do some pauses along the way to check, see what's showing up, and see what we can discover. With that, Clint, I'm going to give you the floor and let you take it away.

There are three key things for me. One is I'm an only child. I was born in South Africa in the ‘70s. I still recall, as an only child, I would spend a fair bit of time with my grandmother on my mother's side and South Africa back then still has a lot of poverty and being a darker-skinned person in that space. My grandparents weren't exactly at that lower end. I recall my grandmother if there'd be people who have been poorer, she'd be making sandwiches for these random people who come up to the window. I'm talking about me being 2 or 3 years old and saying this. For me, seeing her helping people not expecting payment was always something that I guess became an undercurrent of mine around how you deal with people and that stuff are less fortunate. That carries through with me as a person. That's the first one.

When I left high school, I decided to do psychology. I like wanting to work and deal with people. At that point, I was interested in the forensic psychology side of stuff. Science Labs was big back then and I was interested in that whole profiling stuff. I joined the police force with the intent of hopefully doing something in that space down the track. I won't bore you with details but it didn't eventuate the way I wanted it to. I had a turning point where I was running the cells in the police station I worked at. When you have big police stations, they're usually aligned to the courthouse next door so you can easily transport people to and from if they've got court cases going on. We didn't have as many women as more men are coming through. The way the cells are set up, you can't put the women and men together. This particular time, there was a young lady. She's in her early twenties, a heroin addict who had been through a fair bit. She knew she was going to go in. She had a suspended sentence over in the court again. She was by herself so I took it upon myself to at least talk to her. She was there for a few days by herself, there was an exercise yard and then the cells run off those so I was able to communicate with her about the door flap and interact with her.

People at the lowest socioeconomic status are at risk of suicide because of the lack of support from their parents.

At that time, I was doing rehabilitation counseling, which is a training course at Sydney University. I had a rapport with her, started talking to her and getting a bit of her story so I know a fair bit about her now. Long story short, I used technics that I’ve been taught in the course I was going through. There was a lot of stuff around trying to get in a focus on a future state. She knew she was going in. She had a very young child at that time. I think it was under two years old and the grandparents were going to look after her child while she was going inside. She was looking at about 2 to 3 years. She’s in a very bad headspace being a heroin addict. She was coming off the foot on methadone and all the stuff that they need. For me, it was about trying to see how I could help her and say, “You're going in. You can't change the predicament you're in. You're here now. You've got to focus on what you want out of life and what you want to do for your child? What do you want to do for yourself? How do you want to turn things around?” I guess that was the flow of the conversation.

I came back one day and she'd been sentenced. She got a bit over two and a half years or something. I didn't think too much about that until a year later. I would be doing a run that time, I was playing a lot of football so I was trying to keep fit and do all the stuff you do with that. I went on one of my normal runs anyway. I was running this particular day and I saw this person come running out of this house and it ended up being her. She looked a lot healthier and she'd put on a bit more weight. Heroin addicts sometimes can lose a lot of weight because they're not looking after themselves. It was her. She stopped me and said, “I saw you come past a couple of times. I knew it was you.” In Australia, there are a lot fewer darker people here. I stand out a bit more than normal. She said, “I've thought about what you said. I went back, I focused on some of my goals and the things you talked about and it had a massive impact on me. I felt that I wanted to tell you that because I turned it around and I've got early release. He was an act within twelve months. I’m not doing the two and a half years model citizen stuff because she was able to have a daughter come and stay with her in the prison for brief periods and she was getting back on track. She was still living with her parents. that was the house she was at.

I got quite emotional about that as that unfolded. That changed a big path of what I wanted to do. I ended up leaving the police force and as much as it was a step backward in terms of money I went into rehabilitation and truth counseling in the sense of the word. I finished my studies then I became a counselor. I work for a private company that is helping people one-on-one. At that stage, the police approached me back to do it for them. I was working with police officers who'd had PTSD and all these stuff. That's how I got into that.

The final flashpoint for me and this is where the book comes in was I was working in healthcare as an HR executive manager and I had access to a lot of information on community health. It allows me how young people that were on antidepressants were getting treated for obesity and all these numbers of factors like suicide attempts then they're dealing with the psych side of it. Stuff I was talking to the psych nurses a bit about what they're encountering out there. It was alarming to me. That got me thinking about, “These kids are at risk. The parents and role models aren't so great. They're in the lowest socioeconomic.” All these risk factors, you could look back and go, “These people are disadvantaged. They're behind the eight-ball before they even start. When you're this young and you're already on antidepressants, what is it going to be like when you're new 30s or 40s?” That got me thinking about what I could do with my knowledge of people through the police. You learned a fair bit. When you go into houses, you're dealing with these people a lot. We deal with their parents a lot more than when they were older and stuff like that. That got me thinking about developing a school program.

I started doing a school program with the view of, “What are those key skills that can help these people make them resilient before they get to later years when they young because they're not getting it from their parents and from the role models around them. I'm a parent too, I read a lot of books, have a healthy kid and trying to be a better parent. You talk to people and you make sure your kids are going to swimming classes and all those kinds of things so that they are kept safe, they're also learning and you can help with that. A lot of these kids didn't have that. I was thinking, “How do you use school to do some of those things?” That's where the school program started and this is where I'll head to with the book.

I tried to do that through the politicians at that time to promote and get funding for the program even though I was working full-time. I did that through a local organization that also dealt with the education department here. Unfortunately, it didn't take off. I wasn't able to get over the line. The politician I was dealing with lost in the next election. I may not have to start all over again. When you're full-time busy and you're doing your stuff, it takes a lot out of you in terms of time. I shelved it for a little while but a light was shining on a couple of suicide cases of young people in their teens and it bugged me that there's this wasted life that's happened and all these people are impacted by it. It’s what inspired me to write the book around a story.

It's a fictitious book but there are a lot of real elements to it. The names are different and all that stuff but the thread about it was about trying to get it across to people about one, you've got this person that's in a bad headspace then when if they do kill themselves. It’s the impact it has on the person that finds them, the person that's done something that's caused that and in the school environment. I use bullying as a big theme throughout the book. It can be many things to get people to that headspace. I wanted to try and put it in a way but also give people enough information around understanding how they think on a biological and a psychological level. Also, how that whole social aspect of we don't live as islands and we're very social.

I wanted to make sure people got an understanding of how those things work in real life and impact how we feel about things because if I fall over here by myself and no one's here, you get up and you're not phased. You fall in front of someone that you like at school or something and you're embarrassed. All that shame and all that stuff people laugh at you. It’s totally the same event. It’s just more people, different people around you and then suddenly takes on a whole different outlook. You can go down a very bad path from one event and that's what I certainly saw with PTSD. People have one event they're seemingly fine and then something happens. Those are the three themes or flashpoints for me.

People are not islands. They are social beings.

I love the way that came together. There are a few things that I wanted to mention. First of all, there's an element of the way you see the world. The lens you see the world through is what makes all these things come together from the first one of growing up in South Africa with your grandmother. That framed a lot of what was to come. I can only imagine that the things that you've experienced and things you've seen in the system, working in the police force and being able to see a lot of people's issues firsthand that are right in front of you, that lens that you see is what went into the book and what helps you to see that this can't be this way. There's got to be a better way to approach these issues. I love that all three of these flashpoints have a commonality to it that you stand up for people. Most people would turn around and say, “They deserve it.” They cast them off as, “No need to worry about that. Let's move on and worry about ourselves.” You can't turn your eyes away from that. You see that is your mission to serve the people who are not being served that's powerful.

In between all that, I've worked as an HR person. When I did that in HR, it's always about trying to develop leadership in people and understanding. I've run a lot of sessions on health and wellbeing in the companies that I've worked for as an HR professional but it's always been about trying to get them to elevate themselves to a different point. Also, when I've run some of these sessions, the guys at work have come to me and said, “My daughter is struggling with some stuff. You explained this stuff so much better. Can you talk to them?” Their counselor comes in and I've certainly never knocked that back. It's always been, “I've wanted to help with that.” To me, I finally got to a point where I was starting to think one-on-ones. This is the thing about counseling is there are a lot of great counselors there and they catch up with lots of people one-on-one. Sometimes you'll do small groups like your AA meetings and stuff like that where you've got a few people but I wanted to get into how do we reach more people? The books come out already but COVID highlighted the fact that there are many people out there struggling.

There's a lot of stuff happening that's not great. You can only imagine if people are struggling financially, that puts that pressure then also having to stay in the house with people. By then, they had to deal with it so the anger comes in. You get more domestic violence, more people hitting the booze and all these common threads come through. I wanted to focus on how do I help more and get more stuff out there. People at least talking about ways. There are many ways to the top of this. Mental health is a very complex thing but if more people are talking about it, thinking about it and understand themselves better, you'll come up with more solutions and people will do more things around that.

One of the challenges in doing the work that you're doing and even all the interactions you've had. Sometimes, there's emotional baggage that comes along with that like the feeling that you have to help all these people. Do you ever feel like you're carrying a lot of weight because of the stuff that you're doing?

When I was doing the one-on-one counseling, I did feel more of that. Some people had been suicidal so you'd take that on board, “What if I get this wrong? What if I can't impact on that?” I did lose a friend in his early twenties. I wasn't his counselor but that sticks with you as a friend. I was working at the Police Academy. I didn't see him for a few months. I'm at football training one day and I would get told, “Have you heard about this?” That hits you pretty hard because you go to the funeral and everybody's asking questions. I know personal friends and people that I've worked with who have been counselors who couldn't handle it long-term. It wasn't for them. They tried and liked it but then the baggage as you say.

Sometimes, it's bad stuff like I've heard of people being abused as children and they're recounting that and that's led to things down the track. That mocked up their relationships, as you can appreciate. I was on a panel and we were talking about sex slavery of young kids. One of the guys on the panel accompanied him. He goes in and extracts these kids out. He was talking to me from a counseling background around, “How do we help these kids?” They have counselors and stuff but again, he wants to try and look at different methods and that stuff that works on that. Having to talk to somebody that young who's had such horrific things, you cannot take that on.

I've got a couple of cop friends who worked in the sexual offenses side of things and they have to look at horrible images and young kids stuff. You cannot take that on you. It has an impact. As a cop, I’ve been doing a lot of things like suicides, people hanging in trees and all kinds of stuff, jumping in front of trains and it hasn't impacted me. I don't think it's impacted me as much around that but one thing that did impact me severely was since death, a young child, two and a bit years old, no physical trauma or anything in it. That hit me harder because the family is all there. They're carrying the child around and you got to deal with that side of it. It's a tough one. Some things can affect you that shouldn't. There are others that you see, “How does he come out of that without thinking anything.” You use your humor as a police officer when you go into some of this stuff. Sometimes from the outside looking in, it sounds like you don't care about it and you just have to deal with it. There are lots of coping mechanisms for that. It's hard. You do take a lot of that on.

People need to exercise their resilience muscles to get to a better point.

One-on-one counseling does have an impact. You go home and go, ‘Wow, that poor bugger.” Then you go into a fix-it mode. That's part of what I've focused on. When I don't get bogged down in that spiral but for me, it's about saying, “How do I come up with the solution?” I'm using a different part of the brain now to focus on that. If I focus on that negative stuff, it will take you down and that's part of even the way I explain things in the book. It’s about understanding what part of your brain is being activated. Things are going to happen to us as human beings. We're never going to know what’s going to go through in life and not having anything happened that they're not happy about. You’re going to lose people along the way. All that financial stuff can happen like COVID.

It's about how you refocus and bounce back. That's the key part of it. As much as you take it on, you also have to be comfortable that, “I don't have to stay there. I can take it on, I can feel sad for that person or feel empathy for that person but at the same time, I've got a job to do and work on myself. I've got to work and help them come up with solutions.” That's where I've always been good at being able to focus on that aspect and knowing what I know about the brain and all that stuff. I know that refocus is the key and being solution-focused automatically uses a different part of the brain than the fight or flight part of it.

You're basically explaining that this resilience is so important and how we could all use a lot more of a building that resilience as early as possible because there's a lot of scary situations in the world that we will face. The more we can be prepared for that, the better off we are. It's about having the tools in place and building that muscle.

I don't know if you've ever heard of Human Synergistics. It’s a company that basically does a 360-degree profile of people. It's using a work environment. It's based on Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. What you said there about building a muscle thing, one of the themes that come out of that is we're doing this with adults, 360 degrees and they do one for themselves. It's called a circumplex. It gives you a profile of what you like as a manager. One of the key things about it is they do this all over the world so they can compare with organizations, people and even in countries with different cultures. It's broken up into three colors. Red is what they call a defensive-aggressive profile. We have combinations of all of these parts anyway. There's one that's green, which is more of a defensive. This is the person who is highly people-focused, people-pleaser but they're not necessarily good at the task stuff. If you break that down, it's fight or flight. The aggressive ones are more dominant in their aggressiveness and the other one is more about the riding away stuff and doesn't want to deal with stuff. The blue is more your higher-end self-actualization stuff that comes with Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs.

In a nutshell, the key part that sticks out for me is the ones that tend to have either the high red or the high green. They're in the bottom 10% of performers as a manager. When they do the numbers, it's significantly lower in terms of their effectiveness as a manager but then also how they feel about themselves as a person so their stress levels are higher. These common threads come through and you go, “These are all being kids are. We’ve all been kids, these are now managers and it follows through. If I'm highly dominant, we had that defensiveness about me. I'm less likely to have a great outcome and less likely to be effective as a manager.

When we talk about mental health, we think there's a point that we get involved with someone's having mental health problems but ultimately and your point about the muscle part, if we're doing a lot of this better work and saying, “We don't want people to be dominated by the fight or flight, we want them.” This is that focus. If I'm stuck in what I call red prime, which is that defensive fight or flight stuff and there's a common theme through that then I find it hard to problem-solve better. If I'm a highly aggressive person, you don't want to hang around with me too often. I see it all the time with managers who’ve got that common old Henry Ford way. You're arms and legs I gave, “I don’t care,” thinking on it and what you do at home. I couldn't care less about it. They have issues with people who don't genuinely do more work or have that extra effort. The team is generally doesn't interact very well if it's the old world. That doesn't work well for organizations and for the people that have the relationships.

You see these threads come through and they're not as effective. They don't feel good about themselves because they're angry all the time. Even when you think about brainwaves, people in that state. They all tough one luck where they used to call them many years ago. They get stuck in that and they're not nice people, they don't feel great about themselves. All those things have a massive effect on your whole life, not just at work. You can be a dominant person at work but then it translates into your home life. For me, it's about how do we exercise the muscle to get to a better point. If you think of kids who had trauma, it's a massive risk that they're going to be depressed in the future and all this stuff.

The reason for that is that if horrible things happen around you as a child, you can't work that out. “This doesn't feel right. Dad is beating up mom,” or whatever's going on. You build another current of fear early on and it's around you the whole time. If you haven't got good role models or people that can help you get past that, deal with it and maybe address the undercurrent part, that becomes the undercurrent. You think that your personality or Clinton's a shy person, you don't get to interact with people the more you don't interact with people, you feel uneasy. You avoid those things and then you never get better at it. That common theme is such a thread through a lot of stuff.

When I deal with people in the workplace, they've all been kids. You sit there and you talk to them. Even having conversations with each other, they don't want to do it because they feel fearful in some way. It becomes a very different conversation and it doesn't get to the heart of what's causing this and that stuff. A big part of the stuff I normally run in leadership courses at work is on that. Are you getting past your fear a little bit being able to have a conversation even though the fear factor is there? We're going to create safety to have conversations and it's no different with mental health. You go, “Why don't people talk about it?” If I'm feeling sad or down in the dumps, why don't I go and ask people? There's a number of reasons for that. Cultural stuff whether it's male, female stuff because they've given you the old suck it up princess or you don't have a lump of concrete and toughen up on the things, which is what we say to people. It sticks in people's minds and then we analyze in situations, “Shouldn't be saying this? Should I go to people or if I'm a male and I'm showing emotion?” A lot of that becomes very complex.

I can see that playing out and it's like if you can't be fully used in any context, it sends a buildup and creates a little bit more tension until at some point it breaks grow up in some sort. I can see that being challenging. Coming back to the police force, tell me what the specific challenges that you saw around stepping into situations where there could be a danger or there most likely as danger. How do police officers face that getting into those situations? What did you see that was going on from a psychological perspective around fear?

What you resist persists.

There's always that element. In Australia, there are a lot fewer issues around firearms. There's an element, I won't say it's gone but it's a lot less than it is in America. I was a cop for a bit over six years and worked in the police force for nearly ten years and never had a gun pulled on me. I know officers that certainly have said it. From a fear factor perspective, the training they give you is you've got to be ready for anything. That's the first part of it. There's always an element of like, “What am I going into? When do you go to an alarm?” If people have seen someone and you're on higher alert. If it's been a big thing where it’s an armed robbery or something, there's always an element of not knowing what's coming. Here in Australia, there was a young officer and he shoots somebody. He's only been on the job for less than a couple of months. There was a legitimate shooting. If the guy was stabbing someone badly and it was his mom that he was stabbing, you have to be prepared for anything but at the same time, no one is prepared for that. It can be anything. I used to go to accidents and stuff and it might not be anybody's fault. It's just an accident but there's a death fair. Having to deal with families afterward to tell them that a family member has died.

It's about how you can build up that resilience and your background comes into it. I know officers have dealt with them as a counselor that can come back from some of those things and they're wrecks now. It's a tough one because it is situational and you can't truly prepare. This is part of even writing the book around how can we help people build that resilience. Think their way out of it. When I was dealing with people with PTSD, it was about getting them to understand that there was this event at some point, it definitely happened. You're choosing to keep it going thing. When I'm getting the nitty-gritty and explaining to them about what their brain is doing, the neurons are wiring and firing together every time you think about the same memory. We got to do things to change the way we look at that event. It happened. We can't change it. It was a bit like the lady in the cells. She can think about all those nasty things she did and the bad place she's in. If she stayed there, that's where she would stay. It's about how do we get them to change, look at what's happening, focus on that future state and get that wiring and firing happening in a different way even if you change it a little over time. Those little bits help all the time.

I'm thinking of this quote and it's a little bit of a stretch, “What you resist persists.” What I mean by that is around the thing that you're most fearful to deal with is going to keep on ruling your life until you face it. I'm sure that happens a lot with the people who you've seen whether they've dealt with a lot of trauma or challenging things. If they don't deal with it, it's going to continue to rule their lives.

You're 100% right. The other thing is we don't understand enough or I don't think people understand enough about how the unconscious brain works in comparison to your conscious one. If I'm awake and I don't want to think about that, it's popped in there. I don't want to think about it. I can do that during the day. I can ignore it but when I go to sleep and I'm not conscious, that part will pop in there and then it drives you nuts because you can't deal with that. It's the same as what you're saying there. When I'm working with PTSD, it’s a good example of it where that event pops in that head of theirs, “I've been having horrible nightmares, I've been having horrible thoughts. I can't sleep now because I've woken up a few times or tossed and turned all night.” That has a physical aspect of how they're feeling then they're not feeling great anyway during the day. They take pills or drink heavily so they can get some sleep but it's not the same sleep.

It's about understanding how we can frame that differently but you have to use your conscious brain to do that. That's the difference. You have to think, “I want to change something.” That's why a lot of people do hit the booze and stuff. They want to escape the whole thoughts in their head that are deafening to them. I get them to focus on their thoughts. I get them to do a thoughts diary and part of that is about breaking that wiring and firing of the existing thought. “That thought popped in my head.” I would say, “Do some analysis work.” By making them do some analysis work, it changes the normal amygdala response into you doing analysis work. Instead of blood draining from my brain into my muscles to go with the fight or flight response, I have to do analysis work, which is using you. Your frontal cortex work. By doing analysis work, you're reversing the chain. You need to pump blood back up there. It’s a bigger part of the brain.

On a physiological level, you're changing gears or reversing a little bit. Also, by doing that, you're breaking that wiring and firing so when that used to pop in your head, you'd go down there and feel sad, feel angry or whatever comes with that event. Now you're going, “It's starting a wildfire but I've interrupted it. I'm not getting all the way down there but I'm now looking at changing it.” It's not distracting. It's doing two things. There's distracting where like, “I want to go watch movies. I want to do this.” That’s not dealing with it. Is it?

Yes, it's just masking and covering over it. It's fascinating stuff. I feel like there's not enough attention on these issues that we're talking about. I want to shift gears a little bit and talk about one thing that you feel is an important message that comes out of your journey and what you want to share with people who are reading this.

I suppose one thing that came up running a program of suicide prevention initiatives with a sporting team of kids, 13 to 18 years old. One of the presidents of the club came to me through a mutual friend and he said, “I've heard about you. Can you run this? They had a suicide and kids have to deal with that.” One of the things he asked me, “Can you talk a bit about how do you recognize when someone's struggling?” I said, “There are common things. They're not looking after themselves. The key part for me in any suicide prevention stuff is they know when they're in pain and struggling. We need to do more work on understanding why they're not coming forward, why they're not going to their parents, why they're not going to their friends.” A big part of it is there's this model I use called the dialogue model.

It comes from a book called Crucial Conversations and how to help them. In a nutshell, when people don't feel safe where people don't go and ask, there's a safety issue in that for them whether that's real or perceived. If I'm a parent, I've got to focus on making it safe for them to feel comfortable to come to me or come to someone else. If you've got a good relationship with people, you'll notice things more because you go, “That's not Clint. That's not what he's normally like. What's wrong? Can we have a chat?” We have this thing called the Are You OK? diary where it's awareness of suicide, which is great. At least, we're starting to get into that space a bit more but a lot more can be done at home because that's where it starts. We still have people suiciding, “That came out of the left field. I didn't expect that. We knew he was a little bit down but I never thought of this.”

As much as there's awareness, we've got to have a more deliberate practice of interactions with the kids, interactions with other kids or other people and getting them even talking to each other. A theme through my book is focused on using the dialogue model at schools where kids will address information, they will address issues that are happening and they're having conversations that they wouldn't have. I still see this 40 to 50-year-old man in a meatworks who's too scared to go and tell the manager something because there's safety in there. “I will lose my job and I’m I going to get the crappy shifts.” All these things play out every day later on as well so a lot more should be done earlier.

That's a big part of the school program stuff that I started many years ago. It was based in that space around how do we get these kids doing it. How do we structure it? It's not that hard. When I get to it at a work level where we get to air the dirty laundry as they say and we're having conversations where I go, “I'm not comfortable with how you treat people like the manager.” The manager gets that feedback and then they go, “It's about working together.” If you can do that way earlier and kids are learning that stuff as part of everyday life, it's a massive change.

You're describing this as the earlier, the better but realizing this is an issue that's not just happening with the kids. It's happening at the adult level and all levels. Everyone is dealing with this issue. That's why I'm so glad that we were able to bring this to light. There are so many great nuggets in what you've been able to bring to the table. I have one last question for you. What's one book that's had an impact on you in your life?

There's a number of Stephen Covey stuff that really arm us but the one that made a massive impact in terms of confirming some of my thoughts around what's happening in the brain. A lot of it's you read a lot of stuff. I did a fair bit of studies but the one is You Are the Placebo by Joe Dispenza. It’s one that sticks out the most where you go, “Wow.” The amazing things our brains can do in a good way and it also can show you how it can turn against you if you let it and that really sticks out. The great thing about the way that books are written is they give you a fair bit of information around the neuroscience of neuroplasticity so you know you can change stuff. This guy recreated his own spine. He put his own stuff into practice by using his brain. I love the way that's written. My book changed a lot after I read that. It took me six years to write. I wanted to get a lot of stuff right. I want it to make it not just practical but a bit innovative. He’s got QR codes all through the book and its own soundtrack. It's a little bit different but his book changed a fair bit of how I ended up finishing that book and yet, it was the one that sticks out the most.

I love that you brought that book into this space because it is something that hasn't been mentioned yet and it is a brilliant book. I loved the way you described it because you brought it to life. Clint, I got to say that this has been an amazing time with you. The journey that you've been on and the insights. I got to thank you for coming on and joining us.

Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. As you said, one little thing out and people like you respond and get something out of it. It's about spreading the word and getting more of it out there and people thinking about it differently. Think that we get stuck a little bit. Education departments get stuck on that. There's a lot of great things happening all around the world but we've got the web internet, we've got collaboration stuff. More people should be getting their heads together and looking at different ways. As many ways to the top of the mountain. We need to start sharing that a bit more and a bit better. That's why we're here. I appreciate you having me.

I’m thrilled to have you. I want to make sure people know how to find you. They have to go out and buy this book. I highly recommend it.

Lighting the Blue Flame is the name of the book. You can Google it. Amazon and Goodreads have it. My publishers in the UK. It might take a bit longer with COVID if you're buying the hard copy but Kindle is there so I’m more than happy. If anyone has any questions, I don't have a website yet. I've only been doing this for a while. I'm getting a website together but look me up on LinkedIn @ClintAdams. that’s got my bio in there. I'm happy for people to ask questions around sessions for people. I don't mind doing any of that with my own time.

Thank you for coming to the show. This is fantastic. Thank you to the audience for coming on the journey. This has been great.

I appreciate it.

Thank you.

Thanks. Bye.

Important Links:

• Lighting the Blue Flame
• Blue Flame Projects
• Human Synergistics
• Crucial Conversations
• You Are the Placebo
• Goodreads – Lighting the Blue Flame
• @ClintAdams - LinkedIn

About Clint Adams

Clint Adams is a former Victorian police officer who studied psychology and later, Rehabilitation Counselling. His police, counseling, injury management, senior HR roles and working with asylum seekers have made him develop insights into the psychology and social interactions of individuals in trying conditions.

He has developed various behavioral and leadership programs to help people deal with various issues from PTSD to bullying and harassment. He is a keynote speaker on Suicide Prevention and Diversity and runs programs on mental health and wellbeing for corporate organizations and organizations for teens. He is the author of a book called Lighting the Blue Flame, which is also aimed at suicide prevention and developing resilience in both children and adults.

Blue Flame Projects is a consultancy firm which helps organizations and individuals improve their mental health, increase their leadership and enhance their teamwork.

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